This week on the SHIPSHAPE podcast, we get our imaginations fired up with Aberdeen-based naval architect Marius Popa. With our conversation covering topics as diverse as ocean oil rigs, floating civilisations, sci-fi, space travel, renewable energy and much more – make sure you listen and get inspired by a truly innovative and visionary player in the maritime field (spoiler alert: you’d better get ready for your brain to explode).

Transcript ——-

Speaker 1 [00:00:00] Check out Shipshape.Pro for more episodes and bonus content tent.

 

Merrill [00:00:16] Today on the Shipshape podcast we have Marius Popa. He’s been in the marine industry for some time. He’s been naval architect. He’s in the energy scene. He’s a visionary. And welcome to the show.

 

Marius [00:00:30] Thank you very much for your invitation and for a very nice introduction.

 

Merrill [00:00:36] Where are you recording this from?

 

Marius [00:00:38] I’m now in Aberdeen, Scotland. Aberdeen is now my home city. However, I was born in Romania somewhere close to the Danube Delta.

 

Merrill [00:00:50] So, you know, one of the interesting things about your story is that you started off in like a essentially communism behind the Iron Curtain. And through your career you’ve been able to travel and now you’re out in Aberdeen. So going back to the beginning, what really got you into the maritime space to begin with?

 

Marius [00:01:11] From my point of view, it’s simple, but probably it will sound complicated. My native city, as I says already it’s on, let’s say on the termination or the starting, depending on the direction of the Danube delta. And it’s also pretty much the the most the upper point of the maritime Danube. And from this point of view, my city Görlitz has an old shipyard. They did back in at the end of the 19th century. And obviously the related industry, now the shipyard, it’s owned by the Dutchman Group. And there are rumors that it’s considered the one of the best in the group and in the communist time, companies decided to have in this city both the university or the naval architecture section of the of the university, a local university. But what was unique in Romania in that moment, and also the Research institute for four ships split it like this also in time. This was the place where the first and probably the last, the offshore rigs, the Romanian offshore rigs have been built. They were pretty much the the designs where Americans, you see and pretty much the communists bought the designs and they did the execution in the in the shipyard in the city. So when I had to decide what university I have to to go, it was in the last years of the communist time, I have to say that my first option or selection was automatism. It was call it in that moment in Romania, it was something regarding computers and fancy things. I was I was quite performant, had very good performance with mathematics, good enough on physics and so on. But my parents told me that they cannot really support me in Bucharest, in the capital city where this university was placed. Yes, Communist time. It was very difficult really, where communist people estimated that if you are a full time student, you cannot really work at the same time. So it was very difficult to make some pocket money or to support myself. So I says, okay, let’s stay home. And at that moment I says, What is the most prestigious discipline in my city? And it was this, or it was another alternative. But the less but like this, it was more related to chemistry and food and things like that. And it was not exactly my bread and butter, you see. So I competed there and pretty much I, I enter at the top of the list for naval architecture. But second on the let’s say on the bigger picture, and in this way I enter the naval architecture there. I have to say that I fall in love slowly. Slowly. Yes, yes. So it was not exactly a love at first sight. It was, as I told you, more a matter of prestige rather than love. Yeah, but I cannot say that it was also an arranged marriage because nobody forced me to to enter it. It was a pure my decision. Again, it was really a matter of prestige. But I entered there and. I fall in love. Slowly. Slowly. This also due to some excellent professors teachers.

 

Georgia [00:05:07] I just. I just want to say, for those people who might not be too knowledgeable about it, because I don’t think we should assume everyone has the same knowledge. Is there any chance you could just tell us what naval architecture actually is? Because I think people probably have a good understanding of engineering, but I’m not sure that everyone would actually know what naval architecture is. So could you give us the Idiot’s Guide, please?

 

Marius [00:05:29] Yes. When somebody is asking me about this, because amazingly, I got thousands of these questions back in time in Romania, but now in Scotland as well. I’m telling them that basically I know about ships is the simple answer. Okay. Probably I should say I know about the things that are floating because could be ships, could be rigs, it could be various things. And I need to be honest, I’m very sincere about this because in reality, strictly speaking, the naval architecture would be really what the architect is in civil engineering. Yes. Yes. So is the guy who really or sorry, I apologize to the person. Thank you. She or he? No, not really. You see, because they are the amazing talents in all direction of the spectrum. Yes. Yeah. So is that professional? What? Really? Imagine an amazing construction or assembly or whatever you want to call it, and is doing its own his or her own best to materialize this construction. But it’s on on the very top of the process. Yeah, you see. And from many points of view, has to delegate a lot of tasks to other professionals. You see. So I agree. The architect has to take into account, let’s say, the the limitation of the actual construction technologies, you see and probably will do some kind of high level calculations or something like this. But I think that the detailed calculation, the very detailed calculation about string, for example, are done really by the builder, by the constructor, specialized in concrete or specialized steels or specialized on either chain class or something like this. The same also when it comes to both systems about piping, air conditioner, things like this. By the letter, the naval architect will be that group of people at the beginning of the project, what are really putting together the big aspects of the ship. Yes, you’ll see. For example, one big aspect of the ship is the the compartments, how the vessel will be divided. You see, yes, it’s a lot of a thing to be done here because these depending on the function of the vessel, depending what what space are needed for various functions or roles, you’ll see. So how much cargo you want to carry, what type of equipment you will have, The dimension of the equipment will depend on the energetic solution on board. On how much speed do we like you seem to have on the end of the day, what vendor you will select, you see. So if they are able to do something tiny or they are, they will come with something bulky, You’ll see what money you have available and all of this. So through the pure naval architect are that team what are doing what it’s called the basic concept.

 

Georgia [00:08:41] Yes.

 

Marius [00:08:41] Of the ship. I have to say that their decision are tremendously important because a mistake in that moment could have huge, huge consequences for the entire life of the vessel. I’m not saying only building. I’m saying everything off there.

 

Merrill [00:08:59] I’ve seen some episodes. There was this TV show out here in America. It’s called Sea Disasters, and one of them was that essentially there would be a wave. And when the big cargo container got right on top of the wave and wedged pretty much all the way, it was in one point, the ship would just snap. Yes. And there was I think it was something to do with like poor welding or something that eventually gave way.

 

Marius [00:09:26] But now in your situation, you see, I don’t want to comment that this is a standard case for logical strength. However, could goes wrong and really could be manufacturing troubles. But regarding this, it’s a very interesting aspect. What I’m continuing to tell people in 2005, the larger container carriers, they were in the range of 10,000 units and the vessel was the standard vessel with the superstructure position at AFT and makes a lot. Tough sense because it will be a white dick very in the middle, you see. So a lot of containers would be there as long as they were already some solutions where the superstructure. But this type of vessel suffered exactly from what it says and suffered a lot, much more than an oil tanker, for example, because it’s an open section, how we call it. And the open section also have pollution problems on diagonal waves and things like that. And due to this, for example, top of the hedge combing the launch and all its comings, we’re going to thicker and thicker and stronger materials. I remember from my junior year surveying in shipyards, welding of 80 millimeters, 100 millimeters, thick plates. What? It’s a nightmare. And high stencil steel, very difficult weld, a lot of cracks softer and things like that. And suddenly in that moment when people were looking at the solution to sort out this, I remember that a certain let’s let’s not call or not name nations or companies or something like this, but let’s be like this, a certain nation from Asia. The engineers from there, they says that they developed an amazing steel. An amazing steel. What was really arresting the crux majority of the engineers? They were a little bit doubtful about this, but the names in discussion there, they were quite great. And we says, okay, maybe it’s like this. But the idea, the bottom line was and the really the jump to larger vessels was not due to offensive materials or things like that, but the jump to larger vessel. It was then when a naval architect understood the nature of the problem and pretty much took the superstructure and the bunkering, the bunkering spaces and all of this and start to rearrange with a lot of gravity you see with a lot of courage, rearranging all of this to the middle of the vessel in such a way that if something like this will happens, the bending of the vessel, what will bend the vessel like this one? We may be so like this one be so bad. Let’s go like this. By doing this cleverly, we have no vessel of 24,000 though. So when you look to the modern, very large container carriers, you will see that the superstructure is not any more at the aft part or in the aft cert. It’s really in the middle. Also, by doing this, the torsion problem was mitigate that was made smaller. Anyhow, these are details, but this, for example, in first is, in my personal opinion, the importance of the naval architect and the naval architect or the group of naval architect having that idea. In my opinion, I can only upload and says yes, they did are not.

 

Georgia [00:13:04] Yet.

 

Marius [00:13:05] In the history of naval architecture. Yes.

 

Georgia [00:13:08] I mean, that’s the thing about naval architecture, because I my background is in yachting and I’ve interviewed yacht designers and all the rest of it, and I think yacht designers get a lot more credit than the naval architects, especially in the yachting industry. There’s a lot more attention given to them because what they do is so visible and also easier to explain. It’s easier to explain yacht design, I think probably. But without the naval architects, you know, you’re absolutely stuffed, aren’t you? You know, it’s something that really has to take take plenty of time and concentration.

 

Marius [00:13:43] And now depends what you understand about yachting. If you understand by yachting a reasonable a small I apologize for using small but as you can observe for me a boat start probably on seven on 70 meters is still a small yes but for a small a small boat. What is a design? Eventually with sails, you see what is design it for? I will call it a speed and pleasure. Speed and leisure. I think that the most important there is the shape. What will give the speed? What will give eventually? Stability? Yeah, because stability. It’s also a matter for work, in my opinion. It’s a big matter for something like this. But the leisure, the leisure will come, in my opinion, from the direct exposure to the car and the air car and coming from speed, you see rather from the direct exposure coming from rain or from ugly called the wind there. What I want to say here is the fact that really what it’s inside in that boat, the compartment station, the space is the utilities and things like that. A what? Yeah, in a way will will the fell in to the naval architect. Okay Never like to think they get also the building. Shape. Okay. Still, specialist Will will have the last decision there. But what not the last thing will come with the proposals, you see. But I’m trying to say that maybe the focus here is completely in other things when it comes about the yachts like we are seeing now in news about the yacht of the multimillionaires from a certain part of the world now in conflict with another part of the word, what are order? They are not arrested in different parts of the world. This is something like this that yachts are completely under discussion. So leisure there, it’s completely in other format.

 

Merrill [00:15:38] Then that gets to another good point. So when you look at the maritime industry, right, because I’m coming from the Leisure Marine and George’s coming from super yachts, Leisure Marine didn’t really start until kind of like the late fifties, sixties, and it’s a relatively new thing. But where you’re coming from, there’s a whole heritage that goes back hundreds of years. And so it’s a it’s a unique type of experience. When I was doing some background research on the companies that you work for in the past, you know, some of them were going in the 1800s. You know.

 

Marius [00:16:17] Lloyd’s is the the oldest one going. And of the 18 yeah, 18 eight, late 1790 something or 80 something. And the history of how this companies emerged, it it’s also an amazing social and economic history. Yeah. I don’t know if we have time to discuss all of this. Yeah, but I agree with you. You see, I want to tell us something. It’s a very wise and old, apparently Chinese work. What says that for the porter, the most important is the pot for the merchandizer. The most important is the emptiness of the port. So this is bringing you the two different perspective in discussions here. And the beauty of the magic is to overlap this two perspective as much as possible. But we need to remember for the naval architect, for the builder, for the shipyard, the port, the ship, for the owner, for but the owner of the of the cargo vessel. He’s interesting how much the vessel can carry, how much the will be the cost of carriage for the owner of the leisure boat. Important is really the leisure how much wind he or she will have in the face for the owner of the Superyacht. It will be more important probably to to go outside in the word with his friends, with his pairs, and eventually when they come. I learned that situations like this are possible When they come from the scuba diving, he will be able to say, Look, my yacht is that one because the stern tube is shining for the other ones, the to be is not shining.

 

Merrill [00:17:58] So because you’ve done surveys. Right. And that’s obviously part of the whole process, I found it interesting that marine surveyors ultimately were born out of the idea that when people were doing the initial trade routes and all of that, you didn’t know what quality of boat was going to be transporting anything. And by creating these this job role of maritime surveyor, it greatly increased how much trade was actually like passed around through the countries and ensured all of these merchants.

 

Marius [00:18:32] Okay, let’s discuss about the the nice story of Mr. Lloyd Lloyd’s. Yes, because this is the answer for you, honestly. Mr. Lloyd’s apparently was a was a had a coffee shop, not a tea shop in London on tapes on the Thames sharks. And because it was very famous for all of this, if you had a lot of customers from. Yeah you can imagine things there were a lot of merchandizers and a lot of owners of captains and so on. And Mr. Lloyd’s apparently was a person who listened a lot and at a certain point he start to cross some dots and I imagine himself maybe advising some friends, telling them that the he heard that maybe that boat is not so trustful or maybe the crew has a or the captain has a drink problem or maybe something dodgy with the cargo. You see things like this. At a certain point, Mr. Lloyd, start to make some nice money by consulting in this way. What is cool? Nothing to say. Okay. Things was that Mr. Lloyd’s died. Everybody die. Yeah, you see, But after a while, the industry started. To feel to miss him. And apparently a group of entrepreneur decided that they need a name to do what Mr. Louis did. Like one person. This is the one thing think, is it? And in this moment, that first association was established and this first association start to do the same thing, to gather information. You see it to give consultation, and they start to classify the ships and they start to register. So to register ships and in the register to classify the ships or to have eventually different I don’t know exactly this out, you can imagine, but they start to register and classify. And their main function initially was for the insurer, but also for the person for dementia. They said this like this, you see slowly, slowly, Also the owner. They became it interested to prove the value of the boat. Yeah, the value of the boat. The fact that the boat, it’s a safe that they want to sink it in the middle of the ocean and take the insurance or you see a lot of things could happens. Yeah. The business developed and helped the industrial development of the Great Britain. Apparently this was a very much observed it by other nations on the brink of the industrialization. And this is, in my opinion, is the key word industrialization here. It’s about the history. So hence the next one. Guess what? The next. The similar association was founded in the French influence area, if I remember well, it was really founded in Belgium. But Belgium, you know, it was under the big influence, Napoleon time and things like that. So something 8021 or something like this you see. And it was the Bureau Veritas. The. Yeah. The next one. But what I’m what I want to stress it was the next nation what was very due for industrialization. The Germans shall wait for example came very late in this history due to the fact that the German states, despite the fact that they were very, very, very much on the on the way to industrialization, but they were very fragmented. And Jeremiah Lloyd came like entity very close to the moment when Germany was unified by Prussian empire. You see something like this. So it’s very interesting how somebody studying the history can see that every time when an industrial country emerged, it the classification society was there close.

 

Georgia [00:22:41] Yes.

 

Marius [00:22:41] It this creates a very interesting thing because I think that maritime domain, the only industry where this functions that role, have not been took by the authorities, by the states.

 

Merrill [00:22:55] Well, I was a history major in college and I absolutely love here. And a maritime history.

 

Marius [00:23:01] Yeah.

 

Georgia [00:23:02] Just looking to the present. Then what do you you know, how do you view the state of the maritime industry today?

 

Marius [00:23:10] So on a very top you without going into details of crisis and things like that, I want to tell you one thing. Maritime industry, by definition, it’s a very conservative industry, but from time to time there are some kind of of the pushes for modern modern modernization. Yet So it was the matter about the steel hall, it was the metastable steam diesel. Okay. The things like this, I think that indeed we are now on the I would say that we are more than on the brink. I think that we are on the way to go deeply in the modernization process. Yeah, this modernization process, I think is driven by definitively by digitization, but it’s also driven, in my opinion. And so I’m afraid that digitization it it’s accepted and recognized by everybody like a like a drive for all of this. But personally, I think that it’s a drive there in a change of philosophy due to the impact of the offshore. For me, the offshore industry is just the newest branch of the maritime industry. The maritime industry, my opinion has the traditional transport, the new one, the offshore industry. But they are both maritime. Yes, is the way how and the offshore industry came with a new philosophy. What is very much a risk based? What is fundamentally different from the classic traditional, prescriptive based logic of the of the classic maritime of the transport? The risk based philosophy, in my personal opinion, is good because can accelerate the transformation and. Adopting the new.

 

Georgia [00:25:00] So do you think that the maritime industry can learn from this kind of offshore element that is as a consequence? Because as you say, that philosophies are different?

 

Marius [00:25:09] I think that both the offshore can learn from the classic transport and the maritime could learn from offshore. And the funny thing is that probably I’m one of I apologize. I don’t want to put myself on one spot like or something like this, but we’ve.

 

Georgia [00:25:24] Put you on the spotlight by interviewing you. It’s okay. You are already good in that.

 

Marius [00:25:30] So let’s not waste the chance. Yeah. When I came in Aberdeen in 2007, I was very shipping, you see. So the people here told me this You are very shipping because I had the experience in oil tanker in the container vessels in bull dry cargo vessel, bull card, one bull card going so well. Curious. But when I came here and they start to throw them to various people need to tell. But the people working in this industry for years and years and years and I start to tell, no, you should not do this. This is completely wrong. This is a blasphemy or something like this. And people were using we are doing this for years and years and years. Nothing special happens. So what are you telling us? You say? And that was a pain for me. Adjusting from ship to Wellard. It is a it was a pain. I am proud now that I. I adjusted myself, in my opinion, quite successfully. But I want to say that in this moment I don’t consider myself any more. Ship it not oil. No.

 

Georgia [00:26:33] You can’t. You can’t fully lose the ship element. It stays with you, doesn’t it? Not really. How ship you you Do you think.

 

Merrill [00:26:39] Who, me.

 

Georgia [00:26:40] Yeah, you.

 

Merrill [00:26:41] Ship. Well, I the first time I ever really started reading about oil rate was before this interview, which was fascinating. I didn’t realize how you had a document in which you talked about kind of the depths of some some of these oil rigs. And one of them was like 7000 feet. And I was like reading this while I was on like a 32 foot storey building. And I was like, okay, this is 400 foot view that I’m like, Oh my God, I don’t even know how humans have been able to create such things.

 

Georgia [00:27:11] Yeah, though I am going to have to Google what 700 feet is because I don’t.

 

Merrill [00:27:15] Know or know something.

 

Georgia [00:27:17] And 37,000 feet is.

 

Marius [00:27:20] A 3000 meters. Three time.

 

Georgia [00:27:22] Ago. Thank you.

 

Marius [00:27:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like this. But. Or to do it not to I think to do something to between two and three kilometers but Yeah. But coming back so I think, I think both industry could learn from each other and I think in a certain way they are doing and for example, I think that this is the magic of what I try now to do, and I think this is the magic of the offshore construction, for example, because it’s combining these two aspects, you see. And in general, the society has to understand that if we want to expand into the sea and oceans, we need ships like working platforms. So this ships are not anymore scratching the sea or the ocean from A to B, they are going from A because this is a funny because from a authority point of view, for example, a voyage is going from A to B and from point of view of international convention and things like that. But it’s a very good question. If an offshore vessel starts from abroad, then goes in the field and comes back in Aberdeen, is this a voyage because it doesn’t meet the definition in Dynamo documents?

 

Georgia [00:28:38] Yeah.

 

Marius [00:28:38] But ships. And we need to understand that these ways. The vessels for example, are working platforms and today could carry something for laying cable tomorrow can well well intervention the next day maybe could install something for for wind turbines next day with the launch ROV or other on many of the survey devices. It’s an amazing versatility there.

 

Merrill [00:29:06] Yeah. Well, it sounds like there is just so much opportunity in this space as all these revolutionary things start to come around. So what tips would you give, you know, a younger person that is potentially looking at trying to make an impact in the world? Like what advice would you give.

 

Marius [00:29:22] A young person willing to take this profession? Yes, first of all, I don’t this young person to realize that we are now in the same situation, what was in the 19th century, pretty much after the gold rush or after Livingstone and Stephenson have Explorer then chartered the continents, unknown continents? Mm hmm. Because in my personal opinion, what the well and gas company, they did buy this so-called offshore oil and gas accepting the fact. They took out the oil. And the guess what, are pretty much equivalent to the gold nuggets. What they did also, they really mapped the territory. They really got a much better understanding of what is there and what are the possibilities. And by this comparison, I will ask somebody, okay, you know that California and you know better. Merrill Lynch, California was the big gold rush about 1850. But now when we talk about California, in what terms are we talking? Are we talking in terms of gold budgets? No. Yes. And everybody wants to be in California, you know, So or at least a big part of a big chunk of the population want to be there. What would be difficult because it’s large but not so much and coming back. So is the same situation, in my opinion, if that person what has the future in front of of him want to be part of something? What in my opinion, will be equivalent with the development of California U.S. and maybe to be to his his or her child, you’ll see to be maybe citizen of California. If you want to say something similar, he or she needs to jump.

 

Georgia [00:31:09] In in terms of. So we’ve obviously talked a little bit about this in terms of the fact the world’s a little bit complicated at the moment. I don’t know if anyone’s noticed, but in terms of, you know, fuel and energy has never been in the news as much as it is at the moment. What do you see as the kind of future, the fuel of the future for maritime? And maybe more broadly, what do you think about all that?

 

Marius [00:31:34] I’m a big fan of nuclear, but the nuclear quest, a lot of wisdom, general wisdom, what may be like space we don’t have yet. And it’s sad to say this, or maybe in order to have this this wisdom, we need also a more equal prosperity for more people and definitively the electric, but probably in the form of fuels of will cells or even the the hydrogen in more classic formats will be something that’s a colleague of mine told me very wisely. We are in a moment now when nothing is clear and we should not refuse any experiment, any option. We we simple we are really we are pretty much like Edison willing to sort out the trouble of the bulb, you know, with a with a filament what was still continuing to burst and burst and burst. We’re pretty much like a dinosaur. Maybe in a little bit better position than the sun was when hopefully. Yeah, when we need to continuing searching and studying. The funny thing is that probably the bottom line why being the electricity in various for months you see recently I learned again that the China want to play the same big experiment like UK want to play and take solar photovoltaic in space because having that photovoltaic panels in space will gather pretty much the entire energy of the sun. On the on that surface you’ll see it what will be huge, in my opinion and one have problem of dust or other dirt on all of this. And after this, you know, way to microwave it on the earth is this. Yes. So as my colleague says, if you can imagine flying fried chicken, it should be falling from sky. That will be the case. But you should wait until the you should not open the microwave door until.

 

Georgia [00:33:42] I feel like some weird dream I had after spending too much time at KFC. I don’t know what you guys have over there.

 

Marius [00:33:50] It is. But the funny thing is that this is exactly the subject was discussed that show science fiction books.

 

Georgia [00:33:59] What your favorites, what your favorite science fiction books that discuss this?

 

Marius [00:34:03] Not really. There are good books, but when I’m looking to a science fiction book, I’m I’m looking to. Thanks a little bit. Let’s put like this this was in a way, a little bit too narrow on on some facts on on some issues or something like this is when when I discuss about really a science fiction book, what I will read it. I read it again. I’m talking about Dune or assimilation or.

 

Georgia [00:34:30] Yeah.

 

Marius [00:34:31] Frank Herbert’s in this part of the of the books, you see. But coming back, I think that the bottom line here that we are still exploring and it’s not clear for us what is the right direction. I’m not such a big fan of what is called the of will in this moment, excepting that the biofuel could be somehow done from a biomass. That is not really essentially for for food you see in a way or other, because there are some papers again, saying about the off whale meat from all the water from kelp or something like this.

 

Georgia [00:35:10] Yeah, I’ve read about.

 

Marius [00:35:10] This, but on the other hand, the other papers are saying that all go where kelp could be very useful, for example, for feeding. They says that if cows will be fed with kelp, probably they will not damage the environment by there. My guess is he is. I’m not a specialist. You saying something on the limit of fine. All of this? Yes.

 

Georgia [00:35:33] I mean, the thing is, all of this is just I mean, I don’t know how you feel listening to it now, but it’s all just so you know, there’s just so many different possibilities. And, you know, I think the kind of uncertainty around, oh, we’re not quite sure what the future’s going to look like. Oh, it could be this. It could be that. There’s so many different options. It’s actually no. And verging on the world of realm of science fiction, it’s actually quite an exciting space for young people to be kind of entering this world and entering this whole sphere, because it isn’t clear quite how the future will look or how will power are vehicles. And on the one hand that’s quite unnerving because as human beings, you know, we like certainty. But on the other hand, it is an exciting time to enter the space because, you know, if you can dream up the idea of, you know, floating fried chicken, you know, whatever, then maybe, maybe we can make it into reality. And actually, one of the things that struck me was this talk of floating cities. Can we go into that a little bit? What would be in your kind of dream floating city? How would you design it and what would be there?

 

Marius [00:36:37] I think that the idea of a huge pie, what pretty much I think it was what the Jules Verne says in the float in the propeller island, the water island with propeller. You see, I don’t know. I don’t know exactly how to translate in English or all will be. But I think I think that that one is not exactly the most viable idea. Also, technically, also economically from many reasons. Personally, I think that much more a kind of modular design. You see what can assembly and disassembly depending on the sum, depending not only on the environmental condition, for example, for for facing the storm, but maybe also for the social conditions. You’ll see where economical condition you see because human aggregation could be also due to these reasons, I my gut feeling is that something will be more viable and definitively for the beginning. Building small units will be far more viable. We are, in my personal opinion, we are heading slowly, slowly in this direction. Not to say, for example, that the the big cruisers are pretty much floating cities, but floating cities what are pretty much not sustainable in the long run. You see they are producing, but they are producing. In another logic, you see maybe on the short logic rather than in the in their own sustainable logic. So I think that one of the key elements there, it’s also to answer what is the lose value of the floating city? Let’s say what the floating city brings to himself, to itself, to the people living there, and also to the overall society and the economy. You see from this point of view, if, for example, I had a crazy thought that, for example, floating cities could be a crazy solution for various groups of people searching indépendants or searching the land of themself, God knows. But I think that, for example, a rig in a way, it’s a floating city. What? It’s what? In a way it could be sustainable, in my personal opinion, because it’s producing a kind of lost value. But when people will decide really to leave there, not only to take helicopters they can force, it will be the first step. And the next step will be when the first kids will be born there and that kids will leave their childhood and their teenager there. Because what they discover, because yes, as a Romanian living in Aberdeen, I see something about this communities what have been severed from their native places. But I see that the kids what are born and raised here, despite that they are in the foreign community. Let’s be like this earth. They feel themselves much more connected to the local place than their parents. So I think that the first generation of kids. Really have been will be born or not necessarily born, but raised. They will have their childhood and their teenager time on such a, let’s say, rig, let’s call it like record floating city. They will be the the ones the the first real citizen population of that one. So imagine that such a kid is going to university on land and discuss with a girl what he think that might be his lover, you see, and start to tell story about how could be the sunset there or how he went to in the summer days to swim nearby the for the other person will be completely well what are you telling me here?

 

Georgia [00:40:43] I mean the thing is the skeptic in me thinks, well, we’ve done a fine job of looking after the Earth, haven’t we? What’s to say that we’re going to do any better with these floating cities? I mean, that’s sort of how I feel about, you know, this idea of, you know, colonizing other planets as well. We don’t have the best track record. How do we know that humanity will learn and not just mess it up like we have with everything else? Just an optimistic take.

 

Marius [00:41:09] I don’t think that we have other chance. Again, discussing with another colleague of mine, a good option will be moderation. I think that anyhow it’s a good option. But for example, the real problem will be the demographic limitation. So just to request people to limit themselves to two people, two children eventually by exception, three because the reality you need a rate of 2.25, remember? Well yes, for keeping at to the population is still going down. So but the question it’s exactly like in Ender’s Game if you know the book, what another science fiction book what I’m insisting to it was the first science fiction book what my wife really appreciated and opened her taste for science fiction what is not exactly so I’m like my taste. But now she has a taste for science fiction. This is clear for me. And from this point of view, for example, the question is what if the third or the fourth children will be will have a huge contribution to humankind? What if what if by limiting the the birth, we stop the genetic combinations and humanity will miss really something.

 

Merrill [00:42:29] So now going into kind of going back a little bit, you know, I’ve heard that everyone’s talking about like space and then they’re like, Oh, well, I forgot what type of percentage it was like, Oh, you know, most of the ocean is like completely unknown. How unknown is the ocean?

 

Marius [00:42:46] Very, very unknown Is there were people saying that we know better with method, better Mars than, than the bottom of the ocean? Simple, because there were some state agencies interested to to send satellites and map Mars, but they were not apparently so interested to map the sea bottom. But don’t worry. I think that the Chinese are really working on is. Yes. And but they are also companies. What they are targeting now, deep sea mining. You see what I bet that they are doing a lot of that, charting really the territory. And as I told you also, I think the oil and gas company, they they know much more simple because they operate there and they have a lot of tools for doing this. So but again, there are other ideas saying that going to the bottom of the oceans could be an excellent training for going extraterrestrial, because from this point of view, the risks, the bottom line of the risk is the same. So it doesn’t matter if a crack, it’s somewhere in the cosmos, in the okay, in extraterrestrial or crack it somewhere on the protection on the sea bottom. The the bottom line is dying is the same. So, you know, and in cosmos is the lack of pressure on the bottom is too much pressure. Yeah. So in a way, you see people are saying that we are mustering to work eventually to leave there. We will be able it will be an excellent training for doing this.

 

Georgia [00:44:30] Also extraterrestrial and easier to easier to organize as well. So I, I don’t know if you know this about me, but I’m actually fighting to build my own oil rig and I’m not really, but say I was where, where should I do that? Oh, this place for me to to build my oil rig.

 

Marius [00:44:49] In a way, you’ll see. It’s a matter of looking to what shipyards have still have experience of. Doing this, you see. And after this entering in discussions with the shipyards and see what are the best offers. But again, there are many criteria to to to be discussed here. I really don’t know what to say because when I was in my in my first part of my career, not only I was shitty, but I was I was very much in contact with shipyards. Now, moving here in Aberdeen, I get definitively more oil it. But I lost the contact really with the shipbuilding industry and I start to have a lot of contact. Let’s say with the end users, we can call it like them operators or end users of ships, rigs, equipments and so on. It’s a complicated story, but it’s clear for me that the shipyard, in my opinion, is not exactly a national project. But I will say that is very close to a national project. And South Korea, for example, had shipbuilding as one of their five pillars for the development of the country. So some time ago, I don’t know when was the eighties or 1980s or 1990s. I understood that some politician, high top politician from South Korea decided that country need to be developed and they put together a strategy for development. And again, I repeat, apparently they had something like five pillars for developing the country and one was shipbuilding. And if one station and analyze will understand that shipbuilding has a lot of horizontal or transversal implication in the Antarctic industries, because a ship or a rig, it’s a word per say. It’s so it’s definitively more complex than a car is definitely more complex than a train. And it’s really a small piece of work. And for this reason, we need so many industries and so many knowledges and so many input from the industries for building a ship. Okay, simpler is the ship, less the input we have. We need, say more complex, more input. We have, you see like this industry, all ships, especially for offshore or for an energy transport ship. What It’s an amazingly complex ship and so on and so on. So in my personal opinion, this really was lost in the vision of many governments. And we understand that having units, economical units capable to build the ship, it’s really a very good indication of how good is their economy.

 

Georgia [00:47:42] So where do you see where else do you see developing in the world in this respect? Where do you think the growth would be if you could make a prediction.

 

Marius [00:47:49] The role that things were moving to East, I think happens also here and now probably the Giants are the are South Korea and China when it comes about shipbuilding, for example. You see with the Singapore, especially for somewhere there, especially for the offshore constructions, you say, yeah, I don’t know exactly what will be the pandemic shock and the and the realization of baby governments that something happens. I cannot see in states something special about commercial shipbuilding. I see a lot of effort or a lot of news about the Navy shipbuilding. But definitively, for example, UK came apparently with the plan to expand the shipbuilding capability from the actual pretty much Navy, only to also back to commercial vessels. But why I’m saying back because the UK, what in my opinion is the country of the naval architecture, was pretty much founded here, you see in this country. But they had they were all on the on the cutting edge of shipbuilding, maybe roughly until the 19 5096. And something happens definitively with the with the Margaret Thatcher period. But in that period, the something happens for the entire industries, heavy industries indicate.

 

Georgia [00:49:24] There was a little bit of political fallout, wasn’t there? Just in my time. But I do know about it.

 

Marius [00:49:29] Yeah, but what happens there has consequences now, not necessarily the production, but I will say in the in the skilled workforce, it’s clear for to be that the government want to do something. But I am quite curious what they will how this what will be done. I really don’t know but if I would be them. And to be honest I apply that the certain point because a certain commission consultancy called. Mission was initiated here in the UK and it was a call for my time and especially people. We should build the experience to to apply for this commission and my ingenuity. I says, okay, let’s apply for this commission. Maybe I can bring something new or something valuable. I didn’t. But okay, there are some big names on on the list was not a very likely say so. But for example, if I would be in that commission, I will say, Guys, let’s not be a shame about recycling. Recycling ships.

 

Georgia [00:50:32] Yeah.

 

Marius [00:50:32] And why like this? Because in my personal opinion, recycling ships could be extraordinary. Workshop for auto accusation and robot ization.

 

Georgia [00:50:42] It’s a it’s interesting it’s a really big topic within yachting actually is one of the things that people talk about is we want we’re trying to be green, we’re trying to be sustainable. But how do you dispose of your boats?

 

Marius [00:50:54] Can you especially if they are, especially if they are glass fiber or things like this, It’s exactly what happens with a with a big blades for the wind turbines. Yeah, but I think that the same discussion we have in society on even more larger scale when when it’s about plastic and I understood that the person inventing pretty much the basis of the plastic what ended up reasonable rich on his family. But he never imagined that he will bring to the world such a trouble.

 

Georgia [00:51:26] Yes, exactly. He didn’t know, like the chap who invented TNT or whatever it was. You don’t know. You don’t know what you’re doing until you do it. You know, you didn’t realize it was going to be quite that popular when you invented it.

 

Merrill [00:51:39] Now, on on kind of a lighter note before we get into talking about future of the ocean and then wrap this up, just quick thoughts on two things. And I think they fit pretty well. Number one, the Principality of Sealand and two, the Titanic. Have you heard of the Principality of Sealand?

 

Marius [00:51:59] No. Whoa.

 

Merrill [00:52:01] It’s this. It’s this. Oh, yeah. Yeah, It’s this sovereign state.

 

Georgia [00:52:08] That’s it?

 

Merrill [00:52:09] Yeah, it’s. There’s oil rig that’s right offshore. But it’s far enough that it’s not part of England and.

 

Marius [00:52:16] Yeah, yeah. No, no, but you know that it was also not them for doing something like this in Italy. What. Yes. And it’s a nice movie about this or for me it was moving that moving it because it’s sad. It’s sad because a similar structure, what was built by that people not like this or pretty much let’s say use it but was existing already. You see that one was destroyed apparently by the Italian navy.

 

Merrill [00:52:43] Which.

 

Marius [00:52:44] Yes, the movie is very, very interesting and has connections. The Law of the Sea was modified in order to not allow situation like that situation in Italy. So that one had consequences in the very, very basic maritime. But it’s modern or low of the sea. You see what is really, really the very high level, low of the seas about that one. What I can tell you, it’s a nice thing to be honest. The presumably is doing nothing wrong. I hope that they maintain that platform because this might be an issue, because it wouldn’t be so good that the rust will eat the foundation of the principality.

 

Georgia [00:53:28] Yes, it’d be ideal with it.

 

Marius [00:53:30] Yes. So I say I would say that probably considering the consequences of the story, the story from Italy, it’s more interesting that this one and this thought also this one had some troubles, some tentative to be really erase it or obeyed or whatever. But yeah.

 

Merrill [00:53:52] Yeah it’s it’s some crazy stuff. So yeah. What are your thoughts on the quick thoughts on the Titanic? I feel like that’s, you know, embedded in the history of maritime and Naval Architect.

 

Marius [00:54:03] It’s very much embedded and probably the the biggest consequence of Titanic accepting the fact that the transverse bulkheads now are extended to the completely to the low lying deck is the fact that a trigger the process. What led to solace or what is the convention of lifesaving at sea, of the saving of life at sea, and a solace. It’s really, really a cornerstone of the maritime world in any form and in any form. So but it’s exactly the same situation. A human tragedy, a big tragedy triggered the need of réglementation of regulation. What It’s good. However, they are people saying that every tragedy triggers this need and these need add layers of complexity to this legislation and in. Did so last night. Legislation. It’s a multi-layered legislation. Very, very, very complex and complicated from this point of view. For example. And then coming back to some part of our discussion about what this industry, the offshore and the transportation, can learn from each other. The piper also tried to the cigaret safety case legislation here in the U.K. and pretty much the safety case legislation in the U.K. was a big paradigm shift in the way how authorities and industry should look to the safety and the industry in future years. The difference is that instead of having the authority or I don’t know what convention defining for you, what are the safety issues? What are the risks? It’s the duty holders. So it’s a unique responsable in front of the low. What is doing its own best to define the risks depending on what they are doing and where they are doing things?

 

Merrill [00:55:58] Interesting. So, you know, I guess kind of wrapping this up, where can people find you and hear more about your your thoughts? And I know that you have future of the ocean. Can you tell us about that.

 

Marius [00:56:10] Future of the ocean? It’s a small initiative of I’m the founder less but like this. But I have also my wife was I’m grateful to she that she accepted let’s say to help me a little bit also my nephew for a while I had also some students from Greece helping me. Now I have a gentleman from states, a specialist in welding. You see, I have various guests helping me with interviews with independent text and things like that. It’s the site is like future of the ocean dot com. It’s in one word future of the ocean. Not very inspired honestly name but this is the intention is pretty much to provide the platform for people like us. Just the people you see from the industry to say something. This is because I have a feeling that many publication or this with the media space is dominated in this moment by a lot of names or maybe not names, but the roles and functions in the industry rather than really voices. And I says that the normal person could have something very interesting to say as well. And democracy should work like this, you see. So Agora should be a place where not only the king or the minister or the I don’t know what the very wealthy person will be allowed to say something. We need also the voice of the of the regular person to say something.

 

Georgia [00:57:42] The workers. Yes. And that’s you know, that kind of chimes with what we’re doing as well. You know, with this podcast, obviously everyone we got on is is is fab in their own way. But yeah, we want to have lots of different voices and lots of different perspectives from the industry in that right now, of course.

 

Marius [00:58:01] Yeah. And the other place, what broadly is more accessible? It’s LinkedIn. When I’m doing my best to manage the two groups, the maritime group and the shipbuilding industry and professional. Yeah, Yeah, we are.

 

Merrill [00:58:15] We totally didn’t bring up how you are the admin of one of the largest maritime groups on LinkedIn.

 

Georgia [00:58:23] Wow, that sounds hard work.

 

Marius [00:58:25] I think. Yeah, it’s a lot of passion built in there, you say. So when when somebody is doing something with passion, probably the hard work, it’s a put it a little bit the side or the concept of hard work. But yes, probably my my wife will will agree very much with the with your Georgia you’ll see she’ll say yes it’s a lot of hard work and time. That’s what you steal from me.

 

Georgia [00:58:52] Yes. Do you get shouted out and told to get off your phone by any chance?

 

Marius [00:58:57] Yeah, maybe Computer house but. But I try also to build. There are some communities what are let’s say more orientated to let’s say to general discussions. It’s interesting for me to observe there how shy is the regular professional? Because I don’t have no other conclusion that people are shy in general. I doubt that they really don’t have something to discuss or to say. And I ended up with this. This two groups pretty much doing what knows, looks like a Reader’s Digest. The funny thing is that my first contact and for a while the only contact with a Writer Digest type publication was the Soviet Sputnik. Because if you remember, I. I was born and. Is in communist times. And there he is. So now looking to what happens there, I can see that something like this happens. It’s a kind of Reader’s Digest. My wife told me, yes, it’s normal that people will enter and will want to stay there because you are you and and another ones. You are just serving them with a summary of the best of a very selected set of news of the day. So yeah, it’s normal that instead of browsing go, they know how many publications they are going in your groups, so they are just reading the news. There is not the essential or the most important than news. But to be honest, not this was my intention. And when I’m continuing to post thinks there every time when I do this, I hope I pray that this will trigger a discussion some areas.

 

Merrill [01:00:52] Well, it was amazing to hear all these thoughts and give a unique perspective that you don’t really get to hear too often, especially in my industry. Yeah. Recreational leader, Marine.

 

Georgia [01:01:06] Thank you so much. I feel my brain is fizzing with flying chickens and underwater cities and where I’m going to plan my next oil rig. Just a lot to think about, isn’t it?

 

Marius [01:01:17] Hopefully, yes.

 

Georgia [01:01:20] Thank you so much for giving us all your insights. I’ve learned a lot.

 

Marius [01:01:25] Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. My pleasure.

 

Speaker 1 [01:01:41] Check back every Tuesday for our latest episode and be sure to like, share and subscribe to shipshape. Doc Pro. Doc Pro.